Ride on the pants triumphing.

[jacktellslies]

Class feels like this impenetrable divide. It is not, I don't think, that I cannot bridge the gap, but that it is difficult to maintain a relationship with people who do not realize that the chasm is there at all.

The porn was disappointing, but a friend revealed that she thought that a seven inch long dildo was huge, and I was just fascinated. I fell asleep with the remains of a teacup of bad red wine next to my bed.

I think that I am in love with Caesar.

Let the old ruffian know
I have many other ways to die; meantime
Laugh at his challange.

Teach me to be cruel, and to lie. I've never been half as good at it as I've wanted to be.

Comments

[marnanel.livejournal.com]

I never used to understand what people meant by class-consciousness. Now I want to scream at people, "There is an elephant in the room! Why can't you see it?" I think it's kind of recursive. If you don't believe the class divide exists, you also won't understand the other division between you and people who can see the class divide.

[earlofgrey.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

[swirl-girlx.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with marnanel. Class is one of the most insidious, prevalent and difficult to fight social ills human have concived of yet.

[earlofgrey.livejournal.com]

Hear hear.

[koikuri.livejournal.com]

i don't particularly hold with economic-class consciousness; i don't think it says much about a person, and it is possible, albeit not easy, to move between/among the levels no matter which you start from.

social(?) class, though, is unavoidable to me. some people put me at ease, while others make me distinctly uncomfortable, and it really does seem that there's a divide -- across sense of humor, social behavior, etiquette, education, just about everything -- between the folks i like and the ones i don't. it makes me feel a bit of a snob, but i can't seem to not discriminate based on that sort of class...

i really don't see it as a social ill, though. social class just strikes me as people flocking to other people with whom they feel comfortable. no one likes everyone she knows equally; why should anyone be expected to pretend she does?

sorry ^_^;

[earlofgrey.livejournal.com]

I strongly disagree. My favourite example is this: everyone learns to speak the language and dialect into which they were born. Language acquisition begins immediately. Children of different races, in different neighborhoods, and in different classes are learning English with varying accents, vocabularies, et cetera. Everyone is learning this language skill in the same way, however, when these students begin school, the English that certain children, probably the children whose English most closely resembles white middle or upper class English, learn will be highly valued, whereas the English of other students will be labeled as incorrect. The valued English, of course, still needs refinement: students will increase their vocabulary, they will learn not to split their infinitives, not to end sentences with prepositions, et cetera. The other students, however, will essentially be taught an entirely new, foreign English, one that many of them will never master, because it is not spoken by anyone in their lives besides teachers, and because it is an assault to their culture. These students who never conform to white middle or upper class English will face real economic repercussions. People who speak with lower class or ghetto English are not doctors. They are not working in well paying offices. Can people lose the accent of their birth? Of course. I have. However, most do not, nor should they have to do so, and the fact remains that an accent, a very real sign of class, has equally real continued economic repercussions.

Who are you?

[koikuri.livejournal.com]

which part are you disagreeing with? i'm not sure how to respond, without understanding that. however...

it's simply, undeniably wrong that anyone should be enconomically shut out because of the environment in which she's born and/or raised. and i'll be the first to admit that i'm a sheltered, white, middle-class kid, so i don't know about such things firsthand. but in my experience, economic class is an indicator of a person's circumstances rather than of his character and personality. therefore, i don't understand why it should be a cause for discrimination. yeah, people seem to have a tendancy to focus on the differences; we should spend less time on "he's there and i'm here" and more on "how can people who need help be helped?" and who cares about his skin tone or accent or religious inclinations or favorite food, except as interesting and beautiful qualities of the individual? i didn't intend to be callous in saying class doesn't matter to me, but perhaps overly idealistic, in thinking that it shouldn't.

socially speaking, though, our differences and similarities do determine who we associate with, and how could that ever not be so? i go out to eat with people who like the foods i like, i banter with people who share my sense of humor. i prefer those who love the arts to those who love sports, those who wonder why and how to those who only care about what and who, those who value learning to those who can't understand why one might aspire to change. these distinctions, i don't think they're in any sense related to "class" as in economic class, but they do, for me, signify the difference between "classy" people and people who i recognize to be perfectly decent and good but whom i just don't like to hang out with. maybe that isn't class at all in the sense you're thinking of, in which case i apologize for not making myself more clear.

i'm christina eater. i recently saw neil gaiman reading at upenn, which i believe was the last time i ran into you.

[earlofgrey.livejournal.com]

I am sorry: that class is unimportant and easily escaped. If it was only a matter of with whom one decided to spend one's time, it would not matter very much at all. Except that, even if that was the only facet, it would continue to have economic repercussions: rich people and rich people's children would continue to have connections with the sorts of jobs and benefits to which other rich people have access, while everyone else was excluded. But it does go deeper than that: it affects the schools to which we go, the neighborhoods in which we live, the violences to which we are exposed, whether or not we are insured, who raises our children and who works and for how long and the sort of work that we do, and very much more.

Hullo, Christina Eater! I am sorry for not being a better livejournal detective.